Wednesday, February 22, 2012

Pantheacon 2012 mark 2: the comments begin

First things first: Deborah Castellano pointed out that she is a Dianic and follower of a Dianic tradition which does not exclude transwomen.  I apologize for painting this community with an overly broad brush and I am heartened to see that Z Budapest's opinions are not shared by everyone who identifies as Dianic.

That being said: here is a comment from a womyn identifying herself as "Fawn."
No one seems to be mentioning this was a skyclad ritual...so what would happen when the trans-women took off their clothes in front of the genetic-women? What about the women who were in the ritual and on their periods, would it have grossed them out?
It appears that you missed the point which I've tried to make in several posts about this subject.  Let me repeat it again, writ large for those who have visual impairments.

I am not questioning the rights of Dianic Wiccans to hold "womyn born womyn/genetic women only" rituals.  I question the wisdom of holding them at a public event.

Let me know if you missed any part of this. I can look for a bigger font.
All the hateful language being talked about from all sides makes me ashamed of my community, NOT my body or what I did. I did not hear anything of the sort being said from the Dianics' like this...the gossip surrounding this is nauseating.
 Perhaps you missed this earlier message from Z Budapest:
This struggle has been going since the Women’s Mysteries first appeared. These individuals selfishly never think about the following: if women allow men to be incorporated into Dianic Mysteries,What will women own on their own? Nothing! Again! Transies who attack us only care about themselves. 
We women need our own culture, our own resourcing, our own traditions. 
You can tell these are men, They don’t care if women loose the Only tradition reclaimed after much research and practice ,the Dianic Tradition. Men simply want in. its their will. How dare us women not let them in and give away the ONLY spiritual home we have!
Men want to worship the Goddess? Why not put in the WORK and create your own trads.
 
The order of ATTIS for example,(dormant since the 4rth century) used to be for trans gendered people, also the castrata, men who castrated themselves to be more like the Goddess.
Why are we the ONLY tradition they want? Go Gardnerian!Go Druid! Go Ecclectic!
Filled with women, and men. They would fit fine.
 
But if you claim to be one of us, you have to have sometimes in your life a womb, and overies and MOON bleed and not die 
Women are born not made by men on operating tables.
Do you find this to be an appropriate response to transgender women by a Dianic elder? Many do not - and they are choosing to make their feelings known.  You may not like their opinions, you may not agree with them, but let's not pretend that the trans community and trans allies are the only ones slinging mud here.
What about the Trans-gender ritual that also took place? Or the men's spirituality workshop? There are many dimensions to this, as there are people, and MINE was nothing but empowering. I prayed for these folks, that they receive the grace of peace from the Goddess in their lives.
"They have their own churches, they have their own schools, they have their own water fountains. Why do you need to come in here stirring up trouble?"
Maybe they could have spent that energy protesting the neglect of CHILDREN at this event... I saw kids dragged to restaurants at 1am (under 3 years old), kids throwing up in trash cans whilst their parents continued to be engaged in conversations and were oblivious, babies who were obviously sick with green snot being carted around to listen to very adult conversations. It was extremely embarrassing and disappointing to see so many people who CARED about the transgenders feelings, yet ignored the children's needs.
And you did what to protect these children? Did you complain about it on your blog? Did you go to con staff? Did you get in touch with San Jose Child Protective Services? Forgive me for my bluntness, but methinks you care about "the children" only insofar as you can use them to derail attention from the issue at hand.  Which is, in case you missed it the first time:

I am not questioning the rights of Dianic Wiccans to hold "womyn born womyn/genetic women only" rituals.  I question the wisdom of holding them at a public event.

That being said: as a parent, here's a smack in the head to those parents who didn't take the needs of their young children into account while attending a convention. The behavior Fawn described is repellent and unacceptable: try to do better next time.
I don't personally care about someone's gender identity, sexual orientation, or political affiliation in our community; I leave that up to the Christian fundies. Religion IS exclusive, especially any mysteries. I encourage those who felt 'left out' to re-claim their own mysteries and give empowerment to themselves, instead of trying to take from others.
You really didn't read the original post, did you? Pay close attention to this part, which I've once again writ large for the visually or cluefully impaired:

As for a lack of "safe spaces" - this gets back to what I said earlier. Christians are allowed to welcome or to shut out any potential congregants they see fit. They can rail against homosexuals, race mixers, Jewish bankers, secular humanists, Muslims and the like from their own pulpits. Those who find their teachings to be edifying are free to attend their churches. Last I checked, no one was seriously talking about making the practice of Evangelical Christianity illegal: neither is anyone saying that Dianics should not be allowed to practice their faith as they wish and to open their private events to participants of their choice. But like many others who are unwilling to own their own privilege, Sierra seems to mistake the right to freedom of speech and religion with the right to a cheering section.

You seem to think that asking Dianics to refrain from holding rituals which will divide the community and which exclude certain women based on a standard which many consider discriminatory and hurtful, is the same thing as "trying to take" their mysteries. You're welcome to your mysteries. You just aren't (or shouldn't be) welcome to bludgeon others with them at a public event. And your refusal to recognize that reeks of your middle-class white privilege: you are more interested in your own selfish needs than in the feelings and concerns of others in the community.